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Hijab

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Hijab

Postby Teiji » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:36 am

Hello Lee Ann....

I am a 20 yr old Muslim girl. I wore my hijab around 4 yrs ago, because I wanted to do it. I wasnt forced by anyone. Actually my family(especially my mom) were unsupportive thinking that I was too young to make such a decision. But I did it anyway, and it surprised everyone, and my mom was really dissapointed for a while. However I reassured her that I am happy this way, and she finally learned to be happy for me. Lately, I have been having issues related with self appearance and confidence. I sometimes feel inferior to my non-hijab wearing friends, and see myself as "ugly". More recently, this hijab burden is making me feel overwhelmed with depression. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to take off my hijab and run around in a bikini. I love being modest and always will be. But I just think that if I take off my hijab I will feel more "free", to develop my own sense of style without being restricted.

My problem is that even if I wanted to, I cannot take off my Hijab. Where I come from, not wearing a hijab at all is better than wearing it and then taking it off- it is considered like a sin if i take it off. I know that if I ignored everyone and took it off, I will not be able to handle social pressure and hatred. I cannot tell anyone how I feel, because I chose to wear hijab despite my family being against it. So I cant go up to them now and tell them I want to take it off. The consequences would be too painful.

Please advice me on what to do....I have had suicidal thoughts lately...

ANSWER: Hello Sarah

You didnt mention where your from...that can make all the difference when your a Muslim girl. However, I want to tell you about myself a little regarding the hijab and see if you can find anything useful in it.

I was married to an Arab Muslim when I was barely 18. I had no personality at that time and was very naive and reluctant to open my mouth when I felt I needed to speak out...even when I felt I was being made to do something I didnt want to do....I did it anyway cause I just couldnt open my mouth and speak out(raised by an abusive father...another story). Anyhow, my ex forced me to put on the hijab 2 years into our marriage....I want even a Muslim then and knew nothing about Islam or hijab etc(his family house werent that strong in practicing Islam)....but I couldnt open my mouth and say I didnt want to...I put it on and hated it from that very first second. I felt like I was being made to hide away....to become invisible or something...not to mention its darn hot here and I suffered from the heat(me and every other female that wears it). Anyhow, I got interested in Islam 3 years into our marriage and converted soon there after. I was still hating the hijab and hated it more cause I didnt see in the Quran where God ordered us to wear it but everywhere I turned people were telling me its fard, its a must, no choice about it. I wore it but with severe hate in my heart for it. Eventually I stopped taking everyones word about it and started doing research on it....after reading tons of scholarly thought about it, all the pros and all the cons....the sunnah and hadith etc I came to the conclusion that hijab isnt an obligation for Muslim women...just a cultural tradtion that has been incorporated into the deen. I argued with my ex saying I wanted to take it off...but he was very abusive about it and said he wouldnt let me leave the house or do anything if I took it off. Over here in the arab world the man is king and I had little choice in that. I hated hijab even more now that I felt like I was being forced to wear it while God didnt ask for it.

Unfortunately in this society the female is judged so harshly by what she wears or doesnt wear...if she wears hijab automatically she's pious and a good muslim girl....she doesnt wear it automatically she's gone astray and probably does all sorts of haram things....the judgement is automatic even if the people know you and know what sort of person you are....a girls rep can be demolished by these slanders and everyone accepts the talk...completely ignores Gods rule about judging people based on looks etc and about slandering their reps....anyhow, when I told people I dont believe in hijab and wanted to take it off....its the same as if I told them I wanted to convert to atheism or something. It was bad. Your right in that if you never wore it its better then to wear it for a time then remove it....very sad.

Anyhow, I divorced my husband in Jan this year....I now had nobody forcing me to wear it....but I did have the whole damn community watching me and waiting to see what I would do after divorcing the so called Muslim influence in my life...yuck....anyhow, I took about a month of debating the issue in my mind. I thought about how much I hated it and was forced to wear it for 17 years regardless of how I felt about it.....I thought about what I believe God wants from me and its not about covering my hair from men but about my actions and niya etc....I thought about how my neighborhood was going to tear me apart when I took it off and I have children so I knew they would feel some heat about it too...they are only half arab so get alot of heat about having an american for a mom. I took all this into consideration before making the decision to remove it once and for all. before i did though I prayed to God to make the decision clear to me....if hijab was fard and required then open my heart to it and help me accept it....if it wasnt fard  then let me feel at peace about taking it off. I took it off....was the talk of the neighborhood for about 2 or 3 weeks...got some heat about it....so did my kids...but two things happened...I felt at peace with my decision(no guilt at all) and the neighborhood eventually found someone more interesting to talk about...I was forgotten and life got back to normal(whatever that is). Now, Im not telling you that hijab is not fard and so theres no need for you to wear it...as thats something you should decide for yourself...what Im telling you is that you have to live your life in a way that makes you happy...wearing it is not making you happy...the peoples reaction worries you so your keeping it on...really though it should be Gods reaction that worries you most...the people, even family, will kick your ass about it maybe for awhile, but they get bored quickly and will move on to something else....you have to decide if that asskicking is worth the trouble of taking it off. If you truly feel that taking it off will improve your life in anyway then I would suggest you follow your feeling as life is too short to be miserable about something we do have control over. Your mom loves you and she supported your decision to wear it(eventually)and she will support your decision to remove it(even if she is the worst to kick your ass about it) because she loves you and wants you to be happy....incidently my mom, who is not a Muslim and does not really like all things Muslim, kicked my ass the most about removing it, more than anyone else. I was surprised actually as I  thought she would be happy....but she said I should worry about peoples tongues and my kids etc....which I did of course, but she's my mom and its her job to remind me of such dangers etc even if she doesnt like the subject.

I would advise you to pray to God about it. Being suicidal about a piece of cloth on your head is not what God wants from us so please find some help in some way. I understand your "story" more than you know cause Ive been there....it was hard but I did it cause I felt it was the right choice for me....its not for everyone but I cant speak for them.

i hope this helped you in some way. Get back to me if you want to chat some more about it. take care and be well. Lee Ann

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Hello Lee Ann,

Thank you so much for your reply and for sharing with me your story. It must have been really hard for you to make such a decision after 17 years. I wish I had the same strength as you. You're right, I worry alot about what people are going to say....

The difference between you and me is that, while you were forced to wear it, I forced everyone to accept that I want to wear it. So thats why its so hard for me to say "I changed my mind"....

I have talked about the issue with my "soon-to-be" fiance, and he told me that if the Hijab is depressing me that much, then I should take it off. He said he supports whatever I decide to do 100%, which is a huge relief. Because I know that if everyone would be against me, he would be there by my side. So now I'm thinking maybe I should wait till I am officially married to him, and then take my Hijab off. Wouldnt it be better? Since I would be considered a "married woman" who can make her own choices(thats how society looks at such issues. If its a single woman, everyone talks about every little thing she does, but once shes married, people tend to pay less attention). So what do you think about this?

Also, how long did you research the topic before finally deciding to take your hijab off? Can I see some of the readings or hadiths that proove that hijab is not fard?(They might be a useful weapon one day....)

PS. I'm from Kuwait

Thank you so much

ANSWER: Salam Sarah

I'm glad my "life story" helped you in some way. I'm also very glad to hear that your fiance' is the sort of man that believes his wife has a brain and can make her own choices about herself. Thats a good sign in a man...especially an Arab man(does he have any brothers....lol)

I researched this issue over a period of maybe 2 years. I was actually convinced right away but I wanted to be sure...even now I will still read anything about hijab(the pros and cons) that comes out just to either verify what I all ready believe....or even to possibly have my mind changed if someone came up with a good sound Quranic proof about it. So far nobody has....most scholars will just point to the hadeeth about the prophet saying that when a girl hits puberty she must cover everything except...and he points to his hands and face. Most scholars will not tell you(or Muslims in general) that that hadeeth is daief(weak).....

Here is how I came to my conclusion...its not too complicated but I will still be as brief as possible to make it easy on the eyes.

1. God made men and women equal in all things(mentions it over and over again in the Quran)...same responsibilities, same rewards and punishments, same shot at heaven or hell. God does not put one gender over the other in any way..we are only judged on our faith...Taqwa.

2. When God mentions something in the Quran as being forbidden(haram) God is very precise with His wording...He does not leave us wondering what did He really mean.(I could post some relevant ayats here but I will assume you are aware of such ayats in the Quran). Issues in which we are allowed to make up our minds about God is either ambiguous(a bit unclear) or completely silent(silence means acceptance...as in its considered acceptable for us to do that particular thing).

3. God mentions modesty several times in the Quran. He reminds us to be modest in our thoughts, actions and dress several times. Modesty and not extremism is the norm(Islam is considered the Middle Way)...meaning we shouldnt go to extremes in our behavoir....I consider Wahhabis extreme while non practicing Muslims lazy or uncaring....Muslims should fall somewhere between the two.

4. God mentions hijab 7 times in the Quran...none of those times does it refer to a womans dress...or any kind of dress for that matter. Hijab in those verses pertain to something that falls between two things....like hijab of the eyes that prevents the unbeliever from "seeing" the truth. 5. The actual ayat that mentions womans dress does not in fact mention her head or hair as being something included in the covering. The ayat orders women to cover their chests...if anyone cared to read into the context of this ayat they will learn that it was acceptable for women in those days to walk around with their breasts exposed...people use to walk around the Kaba completely naked. God was trying to teach these barbaric Arabs new rules on modesty etc and how to differintiate themselves from the nonmuslims. He told the new Muslim women to pull their cloths(not veils as commonly translated) over their breasts...now people will assume that because they wore a cloth on the head...called a khimar btw not hijab...that in the process of pulling this cloth over the breasts then the head, hair, neck etc suddenly becomes sacred and must be covered as well. As I said before, God is very precise with His words when He wants to be clear about something...leaving no doubt. Khimar was a piece of cloth the ladies....and the men...of the time wore to keep the sun off, dust off etc...they used it as a utility type thing as well....to carry things, cover things etc. It had no previous religious significance...it was just a cultural part of the normal everyday dress of the Arabs....so God is telling the women....Hey, with that khimar that you allready have with you...pull it over your breasts for heavens sake and keep your modesty. Your Muslims now...no need to let everyone see what only your husbands should see. God tells us that if He had seven seas of ink His words would not finish...but that the Quran is enough for us as a guide and is complete in all ways. Muslims will have you believe that its not....they want to stick words in here and there and tell us that ....Ok God said one thing...but He really means another. He said cover your breasts....but He meant cover your head, hair, neck and chest...we are to assume that from the ayat. Im wondering why we shoudl assume that? God is very precise with His words....if He wanted to tell ladies to cover their head, hair and neck why not add a couple more words to the ayat....whats the big deal? 5.  God tells men(first btw) to lower their gaze and also for women to lower their gaze....why would men need to lower their gaze if women are completely covered anyway...what would the men risk seeing if they didnt lower their gaze....a bunch of black ghosts wandering around(silly I know but Im making a point). The responsibility for moral behavoir is on both genders....it does not fall primarily on the female...which is what hijab signifies...that men are inherently weaker then women and so women must hide from men to keep men from straying from the moral path....meanwhile, God does not ever hint that men are weaker or that women are complete sexual creatures that lure men from the moral path and so need to cover up. Both genders are meant to control themselves at all times...

6. The other ayat tells women "pull their cloaks over their bodies while going out so as not to be molested"....many Muslims will tell you that this means we must wear an abaya. If anyone cared to read the context of why this ayat came down they will learn that the troubelmakers against the prophet were intent on discrediting his message at every turn...they turned their eyes on the new Muslim women as women were considered weak and childlike in those days(not much has changed....sigh). It was culturally accepted at the time for men to harrass slaves...slaves were considered property and anyone could do what they wanted to them(incidently God changed that behavoir as well)...anyhow these men used the excuse that they thought the new Muslim women were slaves and so harrassed them terribly...the women came to the prophet complaining...wanting to know what they could do shy of staying locked up in their homes(notice that not God or the prophet ever suggested that women should stay in the home...even when being harrassed by men). So our prophet prayed to God for a solution and this ayat came down...God is telling the Muslim women to makes themselves obviously different from slave women(who barely covered) so that those troublemaking men would have no excuse thereafter. It was a solution for a problem they were having at that time(which btw much of the Quran is directed to teaching the new Muslims new rules for that time in history). It was not a punishment for women(as in cover your whole bodies so as not to tempt men to immorality) it was a solution to a problem they were having at that time.

6. Last but certainly not least....I believe that God is Just and Fair and Merciful...all the 99 names that we have for Him....if I believe He is all of those and so much more then how could I also believe that He would give us the Quran....lay down the guidance for us....spells out clearly what He accepts and what He doesnt accept...spells out the consequences for our actions...tell us that nobody can bear the burden of another...orders both genders to lower their gaze and guard their modesty....teaches men on every page of the Quran how to deal with each other....how to deal with women(since we know how women were treated in those days)....how to deal with parents, children, neighbors, travelers, the poor...even your enemy....God leaves nothing out....nothing. I do not believe that this God would teach us all those new guidelines but then add in one or two ayats that...oh yeah...even though you are all meant to follow these new moral codes and be exemplary models of humanity and caliphates on earth etc....women are in the end just too tempting for men so they need to cover up all that sexy hair and curvy body....just to be on the safe side and help men along in the lowering the gaze and guarding the modesty bit....that is Most Unfair and Most Unjust....and that aint God....nor did the prophet ever treat women in such a fashion.

Considering that the actual dress requirements for Muslims in general and women in particular is given such little mention in the Quran...and weak mention in hadeeth...its rather sad that so much attention is given to it in the Muslim world now. Women are judged and assessed purely on what they wear and little else...this is not Islam and its not from God. Also, alot of the hijab/seclusion/niqab stuff came into Islam from other cultures as new Muslims converts brought their own traditions with them. Alot of what passes for Muslim thought and action today came from Jewish and Christian converts way back when....its all in the history of Islam if anyone cared to read about it.

I know this is rather longer then I meant to make it....actually it could be much longer...but this is basically why I believe hijab is not ordered by God. I hope it helps you in some way. I know just how cruel the arab culture world can be...Ive been here 20 years. Good luck with whatever you decide. Lee Ann

something I forgot to mention...for every "sin" in the Quran there is a punishment. For every direct order from God about NOT doing something(as is dont steal, dont murder, dont committ adultery etc) there is a punishment laid out for failing to follow that order. If women covering their head and body completely was a direct order from God....then there would be a punishment for failing to follow that order....there is no such punishment stated. Im thinking something like this(God forgive me for assuming anything)....O prophet, if your ladies(meaning muslim women) venture outside without covering(meaning the hijab everyone says God ordered) then prevent them from doing so by good counsel or keep them in their homes until they see the "light"....or punish them if they refuse by....?(something anyway)...but you see what I mean...there would be a punishment for the "crime" of failing to cover as God "ordered"....no punishment no crime....no crime no punishment.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Hi Lee Ann!!

Your explanations are very logical, and I agree with you 100%, but, just as you did, I want to be very sure that Hijab is not required before I take it off. I dont want to have any regrets later on....

I have come across many readings that both support and oppose the Hijab. Let me present to you a supportive arguement which made some sense to me, and let me know what you think of it:

"One of the favorite tricks of the hadith rejectors is to announce that it is not obligatory for the Muslim woman to cover her hair. Surah an-Nur ayah 31 says in part, "Tell the faithful women...to extend their KHUMUR to cover their bosoms". The word "khumur" is the plural of "khimar". According to the hadith rejectors the meaning of "khimar" is simply "a covering" because the root KHAMARA means "to cover". Thus, they say, the Quran here only tells the women to extend a covering over their bosoms. They say that the Quran does not mention the covering of the head.

Now, if I told you "extend your hat to cover your ears" you would know automatically that the hat is a heacovering because that is what the word "hat" means in English, and you would understand automatically that the hat is to remain on the head while being extended down to cover the ears. Likewise the Arabs, when they were told "extend your khimar to cover your bosom", knew automatically that the khimar was a HEADCOVERING because that is what the word "khimar" means in Arabic, and they understood automatically that the khimar was to remain on the head while being extended to cover the bosom.

There can be no doubt about it, the meaning of the Arabic word "khimar" is HEADCOVERING. The Quran doesn't mention the word "head" separately because there is no need to, any more than English-speakers need to be told that a hat is worn on the head."

Source: http://www.muhajabah.com/sunna-yes.htm

So what do you think of this arguement? Also, why do you think the Hadeeth(where the prophet PBUH, pointed to hand and face), is weak?

Btw, my Fiance' has a 17 yr old brother lol... Take care :-)  
Teiji
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:08 pm

Hijab

Postby Emil » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:28 am

Hello Lee Ann....

I am a 20 yr old Muslim girl. I wore my hijab around 4 yrs ago, because I wanted to do it. I wasnt forced by anyone. Actually my family(especially my mom) were unsupportive thinking that I was too young to make such a decision. But I did it anyway, and it surprised everyone, and my mom was really dissapointed for a while. However I reassured her that I am happy this way, and she finally learned to be happy for me. Lately, I have been having issues related with self appearance and confidence. I sometimes feel inferior to my non-hijab wearing friends, and see myself as "ugly". More recently, this hijab burden is making me feel overwhelmed with depression. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to take off my hijab and run around in a bikini. I love being modest and always will be. But I just think that if I take off my hijab I will feel more "free", to develop my own sense of style without being restricted.

My problem is that even if I wanted to, I cannot take off my Hijab. Where I come from, not wearing a hijab at all is better than wearing it and then taking it off- it is considered like a sin if i take it off. I know that if I ignored everyone and took it off, I will not be able to handle social pressure and hatred. I cannot tell anyone how I feel, because I chose to wear hijab despite my family being against it. So I cant go up to them now and tell them I want to take it off. The consequences would be too painful.

Please advice me on what to do....I have had suicidal thoughts lately...

ANSWER: Hello Sarah

You didnt mention where your from...that can make all the difference when your a Muslim girl. However, I want to tell you about myself a little regarding the hijab and see if you can find anything useful in it.

I was married to an Arab Muslim when I was barely 18. I had no personality at that time and was very naive and reluctant to open my mouth when I felt I needed to speak out...even when I felt I was being made to do something I didnt want to do....I did it anyway cause I just couldnt open my mouth and speak out(raised by an abusive father...another story). Anyhow, my ex forced me to put on the hijab 2 years into our marriage....I want even a Muslim then and knew nothing about Islam or hijab etc(his family house werent that strong in practicing Islam)....but I couldnt open my mouth and say I didnt want to...I put it on and hated it from that very first second. I felt like I was being made to hide away....to become invisible or something...not to mention its darn hot here and I suffered from the heat(me and every other female that wears it). Anyhow, I got interested in Islam 3 years into our marriage and converted soon there after. I was still hating the hijab and hated it more cause I didnt see in the Quran where God ordered us to wear it but everywhere I turned people were telling me its fard, its a must, no choice about it. I wore it but with severe hate in my heart for it. Eventually I stopped taking everyones word about it and started doing research on it....after reading tons of scholarly thought about it, all the pros and all the cons....the sunnah and hadith etc I came to the conclusion that hijab isnt an obligation for Muslim women...just a cultural tradtion that has been incorporated into the deen. I argued with my ex saying I wanted to take it off...but he was very abusive about it and said he wouldnt let me leave the house or do anything if I took it off. Over here in the arab world the man is king and I had little choice in that. I hated hijab even more now that I felt like I was being forced to wear it while God didnt ask for it.

Unfortunately in this society the female is judged so harshly by what she wears or doesnt wear...if she wears hijab automatically she's pious and a good muslim girl....she doesnt wear it automatically she's gone astray and probably does all sorts of haram things....the judgement is automatic even if the people know you and know what sort of person you are....a girls rep can be demolished by these slanders and everyone accepts the talk...completely ignores Gods rule about judging people based on looks etc and about slandering their reps....anyhow, when I told people I dont believe in hijab and wanted to take it off....its the same as if I told them I wanted to convert to atheism or something. It was bad. Your right in that if you never wore it its better then to wear it for a time then remove it....very sad.

Anyhow, I divorced my husband in Jan this year....I now had nobody forcing me to wear it....but I did have the whole damn community watching me and waiting to see what I would do after divorcing the so called Muslim influence in my life...yuck....anyhow, I took about a month of debating the issue in my mind. I thought about how much I hated it and was forced to wear it for 17 years regardless of how I felt about it.....I thought about what I believe God wants from me and its not about covering my hair from men but about my actions and niya etc....I thought about how my neighborhood was going to tear me apart when I took it off and I have children so I knew they would feel some heat about it too...they are only half arab so get alot of heat about having an american for a mom. I took all this into consideration before making the decision to remove it once and for all. before i did though I prayed to God to make the decision clear to me....if hijab was fard and required then open my heart to it and help me accept it....if it wasnt fard  then let me feel at peace about taking it off. I took it off....was the talk of the neighborhood for about 2 or 3 weeks...got some heat about it....so did my kids...but two things happened...I felt at peace with my decision(no guilt at all) and the neighborhood eventually found someone more interesting to talk about...I was forgotten and life got back to normal(whatever that is). Now, Im not telling you that hijab is not fard and so theres no need for you to wear it...as thats something you should decide for yourself...what Im telling you is that you have to live your life in a way that makes you happy...wearing it is not making you happy...the peoples reaction worries you so your keeping it on...really though it should be Gods reaction that worries you most...the people, even family, will kick your ass about it maybe for awhile, but they get bored quickly and will move on to something else....you have to decide if that asskicking is worth the trouble of taking it off. If you truly feel that taking it off will improve your life in anyway then I would suggest you follow your feeling as life is too short to be miserable about something we do have control over. Your mom loves you and she supported your decision to wear it(eventually)and she will support your decision to remove it(even if she is the worst to kick your ass about it) because she loves you and wants you to be happy....incidently my mom, who is not a Muslim and does not really like all things Muslim, kicked my ass the most about removing it, more than anyone else. I was surprised actually as I  thought she would be happy....but she said I should worry about peoples tongues and my kids etc....which I did of course, but she's my mom and its her job to remind me of such dangers etc even if she doesnt like the subject.

I would advise you to pray to God about it. Being suicidal about a piece of cloth on your head is not what God wants from us so please find some help in some way. I understand your "story" more than you know cause Ive been there....it was hard but I did it cause I felt it was the right choice for me....its not for everyone but I cant speak for them.

i hope this helped you in some way. Get back to me if you want to chat some more about it. take care and be well. Lee Ann

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Hello Lee Ann,

Thank you so much for your reply and for sharing with me your story. It must have been really hard for you to make such a decision after 17 years. I wish I had the same strength as you. You're right, I worry alot about what people are going to say....

The difference between you and me is that, while you were forced to wear it, I forced everyone to accept that I want to wear it. So thats why its so hard for me to say "I changed my mind"....

I have talked about the issue with my "soon-to-be" fiance, and he told me that if the Hijab is depressing me that much, then I should take it off. He said he supports whatever I decide to do 100%, which is a huge relief. Because I know that if everyone would be against me, he would be there by my side. So now I'm thinking maybe I should wait till I am officially married to him, and then take my Hijab off. Wouldnt it be better? Since I would be considered a "married woman" who can make her own choices(thats how society looks at such issues. If its a single woman, everyone talks about every little thing she does, but once shes married, people tend to pay less attention). So what do you think about this?

Also, how long did you research the topic before finally deciding to take your hijab off? Can I see some of the readings or hadiths that proove that hijab is not fard?(They might be a useful weapon one day....)

PS. I'm from Kuwait

Thank you so much

ANSWER: Salam Sarah

I'm glad my "life story" helped you in some way. I'm also very glad to hear that your fiance' is the sort of man that believes his wife has a brain and can make her own choices about herself. Thats a good sign in a man...especially an Arab man(does he have any brothers....lol)

I researched this issue over a period of maybe 2 years. I was actually convinced right away but I wanted to be sure...even now I will still read anything about hijab(the pros and cons) that comes out just to either verify what I all ready believe....or even to possibly have my mind changed if someone came up with a good sound Quranic proof about it. So far nobody has....most scholars will just point to the hadeeth about the prophet saying that when a girl hits puberty she must cover everything except...and he points to his hands and face. Most scholars will not tell you(or Muslims in general) that that hadeeth is daief(weak).....

Here is how I came to my conclusion...its not too complicated but I will still be as brief as possible to make it easy on the eyes.

1. God made men and women equal in all things(mentions it over and over again in the Quran)...same responsibilities, same rewards and punishments, same shot at heaven or hell. God does not put one gender over the other in any way..we are only judged on our faith...Taqwa.

2. When God mentions something in the Quran as being forbidden(haram) God is very precise with His wording...He does not leave us wondering what did He really mean.(I could post some relevant ayats here but I will assume you are aware of such ayats in the Quran). Issues in which we are allowed to make up our minds about God is either ambiguous(a bit unclear) or completely silent(silence means acceptance...as in its considered acceptable for us to do that particular thing).

3. God mentions modesty several times in the Quran. He reminds us to be modest in our thoughts, actions and dress several times. Modesty and not extremism is the norm(Islam is considered the Middle Way)...meaning we shouldnt go to extremes in our behavoir....I consider Wahhabis extreme while non practicing Muslims lazy or uncaring....Muslims should fall somewhere between the two.

4. God mentions hijab 7 times in the Quran...none of those times does it refer to a womans dress...or any kind of dress for that matter. Hijab in those verses pertain to something that falls between two things....like hijab of the eyes that prevents the unbeliever from "seeing" the truth. 5. The actual ayat that mentions womans dress does not in fact mention her head or hair as being something included in the covering. The ayat orders women to cover their chests...if anyone cared to read into the context of this ayat they will learn that it was acceptable for women in those days to walk around with their breasts exposed...people use to walk around the Kaba completely naked. God was trying to teach these barbaric Arabs new rules on modesty etc and how to differintiate themselves from the nonmuslims. He told the new Muslim women to pull their cloths(not veils as commonly translated) over their breasts...now people will assume that because they wore a cloth on the head...called a khimar btw not hijab...that in the process of pulling this cloth over the breasts then the head, hair, neck etc suddenly becomes sacred and must be covered as well. As I said before, God is very precise with His words when He wants to be clear about something...leaving no doubt. Khimar was a piece of cloth the ladies....and the men...of the time wore to keep the sun off, dust off etc...they used it as a utility type thing as well....to carry things, cover things etc. It had no previous religious significance...it was just a cultural part of the normal everyday dress of the Arabs....so God is telling the women....Hey, with that khimar that you allready have with you...pull it over your breasts for heavens sake and keep your modesty. Your Muslims now...no need to let everyone see what only your husbands should see. God tells us that if He had seven seas of ink His words would not finish...but that the Quran is enough for us as a guide and is complete in all ways. Muslims will have you believe that its not....they want to stick words in here and there and tell us that ....Ok God said one thing...but He really means another. He said cover your breasts....but He meant cover your head, hair, neck and chest...we are to assume that from the ayat. Im wondering why we shoudl assume that? God is very precise with His words....if He wanted to tell ladies to cover their head, hair and neck why not add a couple more words to the ayat....whats the big deal? 5.  God tells men(first btw) to lower their gaze and also for women to lower their gaze....why would men need to lower their gaze if women are completely covered anyway...what would the men risk seeing if they didnt lower their gaze....a bunch of black ghosts wandering around(silly I know but Im making a point). The responsibility for moral behavoir is on both genders....it does not fall primarily on the female...which is what hijab signifies...that men are inherently weaker then women and so women must hide from men to keep men from straying from the moral path....meanwhile, God does not ever hint that men are weaker or that women are complete sexual creatures that lure men from the moral path and so need to cover up. Both genders are meant to control themselves at all times...

6. The other ayat tells women "pull their cloaks over their bodies while going out so as not to be molested"....many Muslims will tell you that this means we must wear an abaya. If anyone cared to read the context of why this ayat came down they will learn that the troubelmakers against the prophet were intent on discrediting his message at every turn...they turned their eyes on the new Muslim women as women were considered weak and childlike in those days(not much has changed....sigh). It was culturally accepted at the time for men to harrass slaves...slaves were considered property and anyone could do what they wanted to them(incidently God changed that behavoir as well)...anyhow these men used the excuse that they thought the new Muslim women were slaves and so harrassed them terribly...the women came to the prophet complaining...wanting to know what they could do shy of staying locked up in their homes(notice that not God or the prophet ever suggested that women should stay in the home...even when being harrassed by men). So our prophet prayed to God for a solution and this ayat came down...God is telling the Muslim women to makes themselves obviously different from slave women(who barely covered) so that those troublemaking men would have no excuse thereafter. It was a solution for a problem they were having at that time(which btw much of the Quran is directed to teaching the new Muslims new rules for that time in history). It was not a punishment for women(as in cover your whole bodies so as not to tempt men to immorality) it was a solution to a problem they were having at that time.

6. Last but certainly not least....I believe that God is Just and Fair and Merciful...all the 99 names that we have for Him....if I believe He is all of those and so much more then how could I also believe that He would give us the Quran....lay down the guidance for us....spells out clearly what He accepts and what He doesnt accept...spells out the consequences for our actions...tell us that nobody can bear the burden of another...orders both genders to lower their gaze and guard their modesty....teaches men on every page of the Quran how to deal with each other....how to deal with women(since we know how women were treated in those days)....how to deal with parents, children, neighbors, travelers, the poor...even your enemy....God leaves nothing out....nothing. I do not believe that this God would teach us all those new guidelines but then add in one or two ayats that...oh yeah...even though you are all meant to follow these new moral codes and be exemplary models of humanity and caliphates on earth etc....women are in the end just too tempting for men so they need to cover up all that sexy hair and curvy body....just to be on the safe side and help men along in the lowering the gaze and guarding the modesty bit....that is Most Unfair and Most Unjust....and that aint God....nor did the prophet ever treat women in such a fashion.

Considering that the actual dress requirements for Muslims in general and women in particular is given such little mention in the Quran...and weak mention in hadeeth...its rather sad that so much attention is given to it in the Muslim world now. Women are judged and assessed purely on what they wear and little else...this is not Islam and its not from God. Also, alot of the hijab/seclusion/niqab stuff came into Islam from other cultures as new Muslims converts brought their own traditions with them. Alot of what passes for Muslim thought and action today came from Jewish and Christian converts way back when....its all in the history of Islam if anyone cared to read about it.

I know this is rather longer then I meant to make it....actually it could be much longer...but this is basically why I believe hijab is not ordered by God. I hope it helps you in some way. I know just how cruel the arab culture world can be...Ive been here 20 years. Good luck with whatever you decide. Lee Ann

something I forgot to mention...for every "sin" in the Quran there is a punishment. For every direct order from God about NOT doing something(as is dont steal, dont murder, dont committ adultery etc) there is a punishment laid out for failing to follow that order. If women covering their head and body completely was a direct order from God....then there would be a punishment for failing to follow that order....there is no such punishment stated. Im thinking something like this(God forgive me for assuming anything)....O prophet, if your ladies(meaning muslim women) venture outside without covering(meaning the hijab everyone says God ordered) then prevent them from doing so by good counsel or keep them in their homes until they see the "light"....or punish them if they refuse by....?(something anyway)...but you see what I mean...there would be a punishment for the "crime" of failing to cover as God "ordered"....no punishment no crime....no crime no punishment.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Hi Lee Ann!!

Your explanations are very logical, and I agree with you 100%, but, just as you did, I want to be very sure that Hijab is not required before I take it off. I dont want to have any regrets later on....

I have come across many readings that both support and oppose the Hijab. Let me present to you a supportive arguement which made some sense to me, and let me know what you think of it:

"One of the favorite tricks of the hadith rejectors is to announce that it is not obligatory for the Muslim woman to cover her hair. Surah an-Nur ayah 31 says in part, "Tell the faithful women...to extend their KHUMUR to cover their bosoms". The word "khumur" is the plural of "khimar". According to the hadith rejectors the meaning of "khimar" is simply "a covering" because the root KHAMARA means "to cover". Thus, they say, the Quran here only tells the women to extend a covering over their bosoms. They say that the Quran does not mention the covering of the head.

Now, if I told you "extend your hat to cover your ears" you would know automatically that the hat is a heacovering because that is what the word "hat" means in English, and you would understand automatically that the hat is to remain on the head while being extended down to cover the ears. Likewise the Arabs, when they were told "extend your khimar to cover your bosom", knew automatically that the khimar was a HEADCOVERING because that is what the word "khimar" means in Arabic, and they understood automatically that the khimar was to remain on the head while being extended to cover the bosom.

There can be no doubt about it, the meaning of the Arabic word "khimar" is HEADCOVERING. The Quran doesn't mention the word "head" separately because there is no need to, any more than English-speakers need to be told that a hat is worn on the head."

Source: http://www.muhajabah.com/sunna-yes.htm

So what do you think of this arguement? Also, why do you think the Hadeeth(where the prophet PBUH, pointed to hand and face), is weak?

Btw, my Fiance' has a 17 yr old brother lol... Take care :-)  
Emil
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:03 pm

Hijab

Postby Frederik » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:50 pm

Hello again Sarah

Aha....my daughter is 15...lol. Anyhow, a hat has only one place in which it is useful...the head. Thats its whole purpose and nothing else....so when we mention a hat and where it goes then we know it goes on the head and nowhere else. However, a khimar, as I said, had many purposes...covering the head against the weather and sun was just one of them. So if someone was to mention a khimar it wouldnt automatically mean headcovering as that was only one function of it. God was all about making Islam easy for us...He mentions it several times in the Quran....arab women all ready had this khimar with them...it was part of the cultural dress at THAT time....no need for them to change their traditional dress in some way to accomodate a new directive from God....God tells them....cover your breasts with that khimar that you all ready have....the khimar is not the important part of that ayat...covering the breasts is. I dont understand why people focus more on what they had on at the time rather than on what God was instructing them to cover.....if our prophet came from indonesia would two  coconuts be adequate in covering the breasts in days of old and so thats what we would be required to cover with now...? stupid I know but its a point I want to make. Covering the breasts is the point of that ayat....breasts that were previously not covered and exposed for the whole world to see.....your breasts are something private and personal and definitely sexual...head, hair and neck while obviously having the ability to make men lustful....are not inherenly sexual or they would be seen as sexual for women when looking at men...and they are not....and God is fair above all else. People also fail to notice that while women were wearing the khimar on the head....so were men(guthra)...and in fact still do....but men traditionally throw it back over the shoulders....women use to do the same because it had no religious significance...it was just a covering against the weather and sun. For me this does nothing to convince me that women are meant to cover their heads.....that hadeeth about the prophet is rated as weak....not by me but by hadeeth scholars....and even though its rated as weak....its still the guiding force behind forcing women to cover their whole bodies for centuries. I find it interesting that we know for a fact that some hadeeth are flat out fabricated....which meant that Muslims(or maybe nonMuslims) at the time were making up stuff to force on Muslims for either political or personal reasons.....and yet there are barely any hadeeth regarding women covering and not a single one about punishment for failing to do so....because it wasnt an order from God and so no need to even make up stuff about it as no one would believe it. Its amazing that considering the hadeeth we do have that detract from the exalted image God gave women in the Quran and what we know about how much the prophet loved women and spent more time in their company then men and seeked their counsel and guidance numerous times....that we still dont have all that many hadeeth that even mention the muslim womans dress or that she "has to" cover. That helps convince me too.

Anyhow, any other questions you have...get back to me and take care. Lee Ann
Frederik
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:54 pm


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