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Banana Deal

The law of the sea.

Banana Deal

Postby Cartwright » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:21 am

Lets say for example a large banana deal of which the buyer is owner of banana vessel to pick up merchandise.

Large banan deals are in the form of yearly buying contracts and very difficult to protect IMO.

Banana is a perishable product and requires lots of labor and harvesting can be affected by extreme to torrential weather conditions since plantation are out in the open.

When it comes to a weekly volume of 225,000 cases per week for a year I would like to know what your comments are as to how best enforce respectability & tightening of the agreement:

1. Banana is relatively cheap.  It costs around 1.5M per 225,000 cases.  2% Pb is a mere $27,000.00.   If I'm not mistaken the fuel costs for a ship to go from EU to South America is more, imagine the sabotage quotient.

a.   

the seller and buyer can sign everything and in the end if the client ownes the boat, can never show up with said vessel to port and whoalah, people are left with their hands in the air.  You remain discredited and have closed the door for future income potential in a hard to buy product/volume position.  What do you suggest to securitize the weekly flow / vessel arrival?  I guess the PB ought to atleast be equal to a more substancial amount as $200k, what do you think?   

Besides a revolving LC what are other concepts are typically integrated for weekly shipments in yearly contracts?  

b. I know of a guy that uses special software to monitor a companies exports in South America.  He said he uses this to ensure that nobody goes around him with signed & notarized contracts @ Embassy.  He integrates NCND clause into his contracts as an intermediary(????? how is an irrevocable direction implemented????).     If they do go around him, even with a company of a different name but the same principal he says he can prove this with evidence the subscription he pays for provides to be able to proceed with legal action.  The part I don't like is legal action to invoke recuperating the commission.  A comprehensive PB from both buyer and seller to intermediary I imagine is the only way besides making an initial threat to pay before having to deal with legal issues.

I have another friend here in Miami thats used the US marshall to entrap a companies vessel and merchandise until the satisfaction of a bad $80,000.00 debt was made, but that mechanism was easily facilitated to my imagination since it was the US.

Do you have any comments???    What cutting edge tricks can you share to avoid circumvention and access penalty thereof to slimey suppliers or clients in the global trade marketplace / for various territories as an intermediary?

ANSWER: Dear Mike

Thanks for your question..You've made effort to provide as such..lets see if I can Shed more light on the subject matter-I will use CAPITALS in sectional reply- see how you go-

Lets say for example a large banana deal of which the buyer is owner of banana vessel to pick up merchandise.

BUYER TAKING POSSESSION AND TITLE OF GOODS- HENCE HE HAS CHARTERED A SHIP(REGARDLESS CHARTERER OR OWNER" FOB" RULE AS PER INCOTERMS STILL APPLIES)

HENCE YOU ONLY CONCERN IS THE OBSERVANCE OF "FOB" INCOTERMS RULES OF DELIVERY

Large banan deals are in the form of yearly buying contracts and very difficult to protect IMO.

POSSIBLY..

Banana is a perishable product and requires lots of labor and harvesting can be affected by extreme to torrential weather conditions since plantation are out in the open.

OFTEN... BUT THATS NOT YOUR CONCERN..THE CONTRACT STYUIPULATES WAT YOU HAVE  ORDERED- GREEN BANANA'S  INDUVIDUALLY PACKED IN ETC..ETC.. HOLD NITORGEN GAS...ETC..CONTIANER MUST BE REFRIGERATED..ETC..ETC..

HENCE IF THATS WHAT THE CONTRACT STATES THEN YOU MUST GET THE GOODS DELIVERED ACCORDINGLY AND CERTIFICATES AS SUCH ARE ISSUED BY THIRD PARTIES TO PROVES THAT SUCH GOODS ARE INDEED INSIDE EACH CONTAINER- AS FAR AS EU REGULATION ARE CONCERNED ..THE BUYER HAS TO ENSURE HE HAS THE IMPORT PERMITS ...THATS HIS BUSINESS NOT YOURS..YOU BUSINESS STOP ONCE GOODS ARE 'DELIVERED" AS EXPLAINED FURTHER BELOW..

When it comes to a weekly volume of 225,000 cases per week for a year I would like to know what your comments are as to how best enforce respectability & tightening of the agreement:

OF THE SALES CONTRACT...? YOU SELLING AS SUCH  AS "SELLER" TO THE SAID "BUYER"

1. Banana is relatively cheap.  It costs around 1.5M per 225,000 cases.  2% Pb is a mere $27,000.00.   If I'm not mistaken the fuel costs for a ship to go from EU to South America is more, imagine the sabotage quotient.

BUT THATS MNOT YOU CONCERN- AT "FOB" DELIVERY IS INITATED AND COMPLETE ONCE FCA CT CONTAINER RULES ARE APPLIED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GOODS GOING ON BOARD PAST THE SHIPS RAILS IN PORT OF LOADING-DELIVERY IS JUST THAT "TITLE DELIVERY" ONLY

FOB IS FOR BULK SHIPMENTS NO CONTAINERS- THE TERM EQUIVELENT WHEN CONTAINERS ARE USED IS "FCA"

a.   

the seller and buyer can sign everything and in the end if the client ownes the boat, can never show up with said vessel to port and whoalah, NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN HERE- THE CLIENTS THE SAID "BUYER' ORDERS  SHIP TO BE PRESENT AT THE PORT OF LOADING AS AGREED UPON ON THE SALES CONTRACT WITH THE ISSUE OF A "DELIVERY" DATE

THE DELIVERY DATE STIPULATES THAT YOU THE SELLER WILL HAVE THE GOODS ALONG SIDE SHIP READY FOR LOADING ON SAID 'DELIVERY" DATE- SHIP FAILS TO ARRIVE- YOU HAVE STILL "DELIVERED" ON TIME AND IS ENTITLED TO MAKE COLLECTION ARRANGE MENT- REMEMBER - THE BOL IN AN FOB DEAL DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SECURED BY  YOU - HENCE THE BOL DOES NOT FORM PART OF COLLECTION PROCEDURES-

THE BUYER CANNOT BUY ANYTHING IF HE HAS NOT ADVISED  THE IRREVOCABLE INSTRUMENTS FOR PAYMENT OF THE GOODS LONG BEFORE THE SHIP ARRIVES AT PORT OF LOADING  AS PER CONTRACT STIPULATION-

FUTHER MORE THE DELIVERY DATE IS FORMED ON CONTRACT IN DEFINING WHEN BERTHING IS AVAILABLE AT SAID PORT OF LOADING - THIS IS DEFINED AS "LAY DAYS"-

THUS IF THE SHIP ARRIVES LATE - AND BREACHES "LAY DAYS " SUCH EXPENSES ARE AT THE BUYER COST- SO LONG AT YOU HAVE THE GOODS ALONG SIDE SHIP READY FOR LOADING

IF THE SHIP ARRIVES BUT THE GOODS HAVE NOT ARRIVED, AND FINALLY ARRIVE LATE IN WHERE THE SHIP NEEDS TO STAY AN EXTRA 2 DAYS  OVER LAY DAYS TIMES- THEN SUCH LAY DAYS EXPENSES ARE YOURS -

SO THE MONEY IS IN YOU BANK , AND SHIP DOES NTO ARRIVES- THE  SELLER PROCEEDS WITH "COLLECTION"- THE BUYER IF HE FAILS TO SHOW ALL TOGETHER LOSES HIS MONEY- BECAUSE YOU DID 'DELIVER' THE GOODS AT PER YOUR AGREEMENT AS PER FOB INCOTERMS RULES OF DELIVERY- THE TITLE TO THE GOODS FORMS THE  PRESENTATION DOCUMENTSS , AMONG OTHER THINGS- AS APPARENT ON THE CREDIT - ONCE YOU PRESENT 'CLEANLY" SUCH DOCUMETNS - YOU HAVE "DELIVERED' AND PAYMENT IS ALLOWED TO APPLY-

people are left with their hands in the air.  

NOT AT ALL-

You remain discredited and have closed the door for future income potential in a hard to buy product/volume position.  

NOT AT ALL YOU HAVE "DELIVERED" THE BUYER IS DISCREDITED-

HENCE I CAN SEE YOU LACK EXPERIENCE AND CORRECT TRADING ADVICES IN MATTERS OF SUCH PROCEDURES THAT AN NTERMEDIARY MUST APPLY..BUT YOU ARE NOT ALONE ..99 PERCENT OF SUCH DEALS ARE IN THE SAME BOAT...ANY OF MY TRAINED AGENTS COULD HAVE ANSWERED THESE QUESTIONS-THE MANY MILLIONS OF OTHER TRADER COULD NOT, BUT TEN AGAIN MOST WILL NEVER CLOSE A DEAL ANYWAY.

What do you suggest to securitize the weekly flow / vessel arrival?  I guess the PB ought to atleast be equal to a more substancial amount as $200k, what do you think?   

ANITER CONFUSED REMARK ABOVE - BUT THE PERFORMANCE GUARTANTEE IS ADVISED FROM YOUR SUPPLIER TO YOU  - TO PROTECT YOU FROM  LATE DELIVERY, HENCE IF THE SUPPLIER IS LATE TO DELIVER THE GOODS TO YOU , YOU WILL BE LATE DELIVERYING THE GOODS TO THE BUYER- THE PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE IS COLLECTED BY THE BUYER ACCORDINGLY -(ITS NOT PB AS SO MANY WORNGL STATE....BUT PG)

'DELIVERY' MEANS DEL;IVERY OF "DOCUMENTS" NO GOODS- INTERMEDIARIES  DEAL IN "TITLE DOCUMENTS" , END BUYERS DEAL IN COLLECTING TITLE DOCUMENTS AND "POSSESSION OF GOODS" - INTERMEDIRIES CANNOT GET "POSSESSION" OF GOODS- INTERMEDIRIES SELL "TITLE" TO THE GOODS ONLY- FAILURE TO PERFORM MEANS THAT THE BUYER IS COMPENSATESD FOR DELIVERY FAILURE CAUSED BUY THE SELLER- THE DEAL CAN STILL CLOSE , EXCEOPT  THE BUYER GETS THE PG VALUE  TO HELP MITIGATE COST CAUSED BY SUCH DELIVERY DELAY-

Besides a revolving LC what are other concepts are typically integrated for weekly shipments in yearly contracts? NON AS FAR AS UNSKILED INTERMEDIARIES ARE CONCERNED- UCP600 IRREVOCABLE NON CUMULATIVE REVOLVING  TRANSFERABLE DOCUMENTARTY LETTER OF CREDIT IS THE ONLY SAFE APPLICATION- b. I know of a guy that uses special software to monitor a companies exports in South America.  He said he uses this to ensure that nobody goes around him with signed & notarized contracts @ Embassy.  He integrates NCND clause into his contracts as an intermediary(????? how is an irrevocable direction implemented????).     If they do go around him, even with a company of a different name but the same principal he says he can prove this with evidence the subscription he pays for provides to be able to proceed with legal action. NONSENSE...YOU HAVE TO PROVE A LOSS OF EARNINGS- A CIRCUMVENTING GROUP CLOSES ITS DOORS ON EVERYONE ..AN INTERMEDIARY SIMPLY HAS NO WAY TO FIND OIUT IF THE DEAL DID CLOSE..AND EVEN ITF IT DID , IT HAS NO WAY TO PROVE HE WAS PART OF THE DEAL...AND EVEN IF HE COULD ...HE HAS TO SHOW WAHT WAS "LOST" ... A PAYORDER IS USELESS..BECAUSE IT CANNOT BE COLLECTED UPON.

I SELL BANANAS TO 20 DIFFERENT BUYER FROM THE SAME PORT-IF YOU WERE CIRCUMEWVENTED HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS YOU SPECIFIC  DEAL THATS WAS BY PASSED...? IF YOU ISSUE AN INJUNCTION TO STOP SUCH A DEAL ONLY TO FIND THAT IT WAS NOT YOUR DEAL..THE MASSIVE COST OF THE INJUNCTION AND THAT OF BEING SUED  FOR THE LOSS  CAUSE DBECAUSE OF SUCH DELAYS WILL SEND  YOU BROKE..ETC..ETC. I CAN GO ON ALL DAY OIN THIS THREAD...

The part I don't like is legal action to invoke recuperating the commission. NO A CHANCE..IT WOULD COST HALF A MILLON DOLLARS TO PROVE ALL SUCH MATTTERS EFECTIVELY TO WIN SUCH A COURT CASE..NONSENSE REALLY.INTERMEDIARIES DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF SPARE MONEY ..JUST LAYING AROUND. A comprehensive PB from both buyer and seller to intermediary I imagine is the only way besides making an initial threat to pay before having to deal with legal issues.

NO..THE PG HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEAL OTHER THAN FOR" LATE DELIVERY"A ISB98  SLC IS ISSUED FROM THE SUPPLIER TO YOU- AND TRANSFERD BY YOU TO THE SUPPLIER AFTER HE ADVISES YOU HIS DLC AND SUCH I IN ORDER AND ACCEPTED BY YOU-

YO HRN TRANSFER ONLY THE BUY PRICE TO YOUR SUPPLIER - THE DIFFERENCE IN YOU ACCOUNT IS YOUR COMMISSION- WHEN DELIVERY IS MADE AND ALL DOCUMENTS ARE PRESENTED CORRECTY TO THE BUYER ISSUING BANK ...THE SUPPLIER GETS HIS MONEY AS DO YOU-

BANKS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED IN MATTERS OF THE SALES CONTRACT..THEY DEAL IN FINANCE..THE ISSUING BANK OF THE END BUYER TAKES OVER FROM THE END BUYER IN "GUARANTEEING" PAYMNENTS SO LONG AS "DELEVERY" DOCUMENTS  ARE PRESENTED AS THE THE CONDITION OF THE DLC...EVEN IF GOODS HAVE NOT ARRIVED...THATS WHY A UCP600 FORMATTED DLC MUST BE IUSED BY INTERMEDIARIES-THATS WHY SUCH A DLC IS ISSUED AS "IRREVOCABLE" - THE END BUYER CAN SCREAM ALL HE LIKES TO HIS BANK TO STOP THE DLC FROM BEING PAID UPON..BUT IF YOU HAVE PRESENTED ALL THE DELIVERY DOCUMENTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CREDITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS ..THE BUYER BANK HAS TO ALLOW COLLECTION TO PROCEED ..AS PER "UCP600" RULES I have another friend here in Miami thats used the US marshall to entrap a companies vessel and merchandise until the satisfaction of a bad $80,000.00 debt was made, but that mechanism was easily facilitated to my imagination since it was the US.

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEAL IN HAND ...THAT RELATES TO A WHOLE OTHER BALL GAME..EXAMPLE ; A CARRIER WHO HAS NOT BEEN PAID FREIGHT IS ALLOWED A LEIN ON THE GOODS..THE GOODS ARE SEIZED AND SOLD TO RECOVER FREIGHT COSTS..NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU'VE STATED-

Do you have any comments???    What cutting edge tricks can you share to avoid circumvention and access penalty thereof to slimey suppliers or clients in the global trade marketplace / for various territories as an intermediary?

CERTAINLY HAVE ...ITS CALLED " DOCTRINE OF STRICT COMPLIANCE"..YOU LEARN CORRECT TRADING PROCEDURES AS IT APPLIES TO INTERMEDIARIES- YOU BECOME THE SOURCING INTERMEDIRY , THEN REVERT TO POSITION OF OF SPECIAL INTERMEDIARY DEFINED AS "BUYER/ESELLER" AND CONCULDE THE DEAL YOUR SELF  BETWEEN THE END BUYER AND THE SUPPLIER WITHOUT ONE SIDE FINDING OUT ANYTHING ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE - YOU AS THE BUYER/SELLER ALSO  COLLECT UPON AND PROTECT ALL INTERMEDIAIRES COMMISSIONS WHO HAVE HELPED YOUCLOSE THE DEAL.

YOU MUST  FORGET ALL ALBOUT NCND/ LOI/ICPO/POP/ASWP AND THE LIKES AND LEARN EFFECTIVE PROCEUDRES-

THERE IS NO OTHER EFFECTIVE WAY TO ENSURE SAFE COMMISSIONS. READ "URPIB" AND OTHE VALUABLE MATERIAL FOUND IN BOTH BELOW WEBSITES-

ABOVE IS YOU ANSWER, BUT AS STATED ABVE MAY BE CONFUSING BECAUSE WITHOUT LEARNING PROCEDURES ABOVE WILL ONLY MAKE SENSE IN PART-

THERE IS SO MUCH TO LEARN...AND KNOW BECFORE ONE SHOULD EVEN ATTEMPT TO CLOSE A IMPORT EXPORT DEAL AS A PRIVATE INTERMEDIARY-

KIND REGARDS

DAVIDE PAPA

WWW.FTNX.9F.COM

WWW.FTNEXPORTING.COM

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

You put responses after statements that weren't even questions.

1. I would doubt that a banana contract would be deemed acceptable where strict conditions, delivery/lay's for lateness apply since soo many variables do affect deliverance of agriculture.  

2. There is this service called piers for cargo intelligence that lloyds sells that I know of.  

The software / subscription the exporters that monitor movement in South America are Urea & Sugar brokers that can see all movement in Colombia via a Colombian companies NIT.  They can also detect sister companies that some people use them to transact once they know who's the original supplier.  

Even the names of principals involved in both sides of the transaction are shown.  

Thank you for answering.  Though you didn't answer me directly your comments pretty much allowed me to understand construction of draft verbiage concept / mechanism that would be essential to make this deal go through to cover and allow fluctuations in verified availability.  
Cartwright
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:58 pm

Banana Deal

Postby Gwalhaved » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:52 am



Dear Mike,

Again I've used CAPITALS  in reply - Big questions lik this are very difficult so excuse any spelling/ grammar mistakes-ANSWER ONLY GIVEN IN BASIC FORM- ASSUME THERE IS A LOT MORE TO APPLY and know.

1. I would doubt that a banana contract would be deemed acceptable where strict conditions, delivery/lay's for lateness apply since soo many variables do affect deliverance of agriculture

DOUBT ALL YOU LIKE- BUT AGAIN YOU ARE NOT APPROACHING THE PROBLEM CORRECTLY- "VARIABLES ' SEEN OR UNFORESEEN HAS TO BE COVERED IN THE CONTRACT-

IN ANY CASE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT "CROP CONDITIONS" AND "SHIPPING MATTERS" - THATS SEPERATE TO "PERFORMANCE OF DELIVERY" ONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER.  

YOU CANNOT BUY RIPE BANANAS ONLY GREEN BANANAS, MOST PROBABLY SEALED IN NITROGEN-OR TREATED IN SOME OTHE MANNER,. HENCE THATS A MATTER OF CONTRACT-YOIU CANNOT BUY BANANAS IF A CYCLONE HAS DESTROYED THE CROP...

YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT ORDERED "RIPE" BANANAS, WHICH ARRIVED ROTTEN AT DESTINATION PORT...ETC..ETC..

YOU WANT TO BUY THEN RESELL BANANA'S AS A BUYER/SELLER- THEN CONTRACT CONDITIONS APPLY- IF THE BUYER MAKES A CLAIM AGAINST YOU, THEN THE CLAIM IS SUPPOSED TO BE COVERED SO LONG AS YOUR CONTRACT WITH THS SUPPLIER COVERS SUCH EVENTS TO YOU- YOU MAKE CLAIMS AGAINST THE SUPPLIER AND TRANSFER SUCH TO YORU END BUYER-

HENCE  YOU ARE A 'INTERMEDIARY" AS SUCH;

YOU WANT TO BE SURE  THAT THE BANAN'S ARE DELIVERED ON TIME;- THAT'S A CONDITION OF "CONTRACT" IN WHERE SUPPORT TO THE CONTRACT TO ENSURE SUCH DELIVERY DOES TAKE PLACE  IS APPLIED IN THE FORM OF A "PERFOMANCE GUARANTEE"

IE; IF SUPPLIER IS  LATE TO 'DELIVER'  BANNAS AS PER CONTRACT - YOU GET PAID A PENALTY FROM THE SUPPLIER , BECAUSE IF THE SUPPLIER IS LATE TO YOU , THEN YOU WILL BE LATE TO DELIVER THE GOODS TO YOUR BUYERS AS WELL....HENCE THE 'PG" IS TRANSFERRED TOEND BUYER  VIA YOU AS OBTAINED FROM THE SUPPLIER-

THE RULES THAT DICTATE WHO PAYS FOR WHAT IN MATTERS OF SHIPPING , THATS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE'

IF THE BANNA'S DON;T ARRIVE AS PER CONTRACT CONDITION - THATS A "BREACH OF CONTRACT" TO WHICH  THE SUPPLIER PROVIDES YOU THE RQUIRED REMEDY THE  DEFECTS , IN WHERE YOU TRANSFER AS SUCH TO YOUR END BUYER..ETC..ETC..ETC..

THAT HAS TO DO WITH "CONTRACT OBLIGATIONS"-

"FOB" RULES ARE DEFINED UNDER " INCOTERMS" DELIVERY RULES- FOR CONTAINER BUSINESS CORRECLTY SPEAKING THE CORRECT TERM THAT REPLACES "FOB" IS " FCA" MEANING "FREE CARRIER"

THE PRESNTATION DOCUMENTS ARE DEFINED AS "CT" DOCUMENTS -COMBINED TRANSPORT DOCUMENTS-

THE DELIVERY IS APPLIED TO A "CONTAINER FREIGHT STATION" "CFS"- THE CONTAINER IS THEN PUT ON BOARD THE BUYERS NAMED CARRIER "FREE' OF CHARGES IN CONSIDERATION OF "FREIGHT"

HENCE FOB RULES STATE THAT THE BUYER HAS TO INFORM THE SELLER OF LAYTIMES- THAT IS THE BUYER INFORMS THE SELLER WHEN THE SHIP WILL BE IN PORT-(VIA HIS SHIPPING AGENT)

THE SELLER IS OBLIGATED TO ENSURE GOODS ARE "ALONG SIDE SHIP' AS STIPULTED IN THE CONTRACT IN MEEETING WITH "LAY TIMES"- IF THE SELLER IS LATE AND THE GOODS ARE NOT THERE ON THE SAID DELIVERY DATE-SO LONG AS THE SHIP IS IN PORT- ALL COST OF SHIPPING DELAY  ARE FOR THE ACCOUNT OF THE SELLER- IF THE SHIP IS LATE , AND THE GOODS ARE ALONG SIDE READY FOR LOADING THEN THATS EXPENSE IS FOR THE ACCOUNT OF THE BUYER...ETC..ETC.. I DON'T MAKE THESE RULES - INCOTERMS ARE THE UNIVERSAL RULES OF 'DELIVERY"

SO IF THESE ARE THE DELIVERY RULES-THEN NOT FOLLOWING AS SUCH MEANS  LATER, YOU COULD END UP IN TROUBLE.

UNDERSTADING THAT " TRACKING" , "CROP DCONDITIONS", MATTERS OF CONTRACT OBLIGATION AND MATTERS OF SHIPPING AND MATTERS OF PAYMENT AS WELL AS PERFORMANCE ARE ALL SEPERATE INDUVIDUAL PRACTICES - ALL SUCH PRACTICES A UNITED IN THE ONE DEAL-

2. There is this service called piers for cargo intelligence that lloyds sells that I know of.  

The software / subscription the exporters that monitor movement in South America are Urea & Sugar brokers that can see all movement in Colombia via a Colombian companies NIT.  They can also detect sister companies that some people use them to transact once they know who's the original supplier.  

Even the names of principals involved in both sides of the transaction are shown.  

AGAIN READ ABOVE- YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTADING YOUR POSITION IN THE WHOLE MATTER-'TRACKING OF GOODS'  HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROTECTING YOUR INTERESTS IN THE DEAL -

ONLY PRINCIPALS TO A CONTRACT ARE NAMED..THAT MEANS THERE ARE 100 SOURCING INTERMEDIARIES INVOLVED , BUT ONLY THE TRANSACTIONG PARTIES WHO SIGN THE CONTRACT TO BUY AND SELL ARE THE PRINCIPALS - YOU CANNOT APPLY 100 INTERMEDIARIES TO A CONTRCT-AS BEING ALL BUYER AND ALL SELLERS- THATS NONSENSE-

THE BILL OF LADING GOES TO THE  END BUYER  AS CONSIGNEEE - OR TO THE END BUYER VIA "NOTIFY PARTY " MADE TO "ORDER" - IN WHERE THE MIDDLE BUYER /SELLER IS ABLE TO OBTAIN THE ENDORSED "BILL OF LADING" AND TRANSFER  IT  AS  'BLANK ENDORSED"  TO HIS END BUYER

THERE CANNOT BE 100 INTERMEDIAIRES NAMED ON THE BILL OF LADING-

TRACKING THE GOODS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROTECTING YOUR COMMISSIONS- THAT HAS TO APPLY ANOTHR MECHANISM , APPLICABLE  WHEN THE DLC IS TRANSFRRED FROM THE END BUYER TO THE MIDDLE BUYER AT ONE VALUE , IN WHERE THE BUY VALUE IS TRANSFERRED TO THE SUPPLIER  LEAVING THE DIFFERENCE IN THE BUYERS/SELLER ACCOUNT AS COMMISSION-

WHEN THE END BUYERS(BANK) GETS THE CLEAN DELIVERY DOCUEMENTS , COLLECTION ON THE DLC IS APPLIED AND PAID OUT UPON ITS INSTRUCTION- THATS MEANS  YOU GET PAID   YOUR COMMISSION WHICH IS RELEASED, BUT THE VALUE OIF THE DLC VIA IISSUE ITS NUMBER THEN FOLLOWS THROUGH TO THE SUPPLIER WHO ALSO GETS HIS MONEY-

TRACKING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INTERMEDIARY , NOR HAS IT ANYTHING TO DO WITH PROTECTING HIS INTRESTS IN THE DEAL BEING APPLIED- FTN EXPORTING LIVES IN AUSTRALIA , THE GOODS ARE GOING TO CHINA , FROM A SUPPLIER IN BRAZIL- TRACKING FOLLOWS THE GOODS- TTITLE DOCUMENTS FOLLOW THROUGH TO FTN EXPORTING. THE SOURCING INTERMEDIARIES  INVOLVED IN A DEAL(IF ANY) ARE BEING PROTECTED BY FTN EXPORTING AND HAVE NOTHING PRTECTING THEIR INTERESTS  EXCEPT FTN EXPORTING PAY ORDERS  ISSUED WITH GOOD INTENT-

I HOPE THE ABOVE IS CLEAR-REGARDLESS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS TELLING YOU..THEY CAN SELL IN WHAT EVER MANNER THEY WISH OR THINK THEY CAN APPLY- BUT YOU THE MIDDLE INTERMEDIARY  "BUYER/SELLER" IS OBLIGATED TO ONLY PERFORM WITHIN THE REALM OF STRICT APPLICATION OF RULES AND PROCEDURES-IN PROTECTING THE INTERESTS OF YOUR END BUYER AND ULTIMATELY YOURSELF-

Thank you for answering.  Though you didn't answer me directly your comments pretty much allowed me to understand construction of draft verbiage concept / mechanism that would be essential to make this deal go through to cover and allow fluctuations in verified availability.

NO SURE WHAT YOU MEAN HERE..NEVETHELESS ..IF ABOVE HELPS THEN EVERYONE GAINS..THE LAST THING I WANT IS FOR INTERMEDIARIES TO BECOME LEGALLY BOUND IN MATTERS WHICH REALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM-EVERY DAY AROUND THE WORLD COURTS ARE FILLED WITH TRADE LITIGATIONS..WHY..? BECAUSE EVNEN THOUGH RULES ARE IN PLACE , MANY DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM AND TAKE SHORT CUTS- THERE ARE NO SHORT CUTS IN THIS BUSINESS... THE REASONS WHY SO MANY END UP IN COURT NOW IS APPARENT.

KIND REGARDS

DAVIDE PAPA

WWW.FTNEXPORTING.COM

WWW.FTNX.9F.COM  
Gwalhaved
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:54 am

Banana Deal

Postby Bairrfhionn » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:18 pm

Lets say for example a large banana deal of which the buyer is owner of banana vessel to pick up merchandise.

Large banan deals are in the form of yearly buying contracts and very difficult to protect IMO.

Banana is a perishable product and requires lots of labor and harvesting can be affected by extreme to torrential weather conditions since plantation are out in the open.

When it comes to a weekly volume of 225,000 cases per week for a year I would like to know what your comments are as to how best enforce respectability & tightening of the agreement:

1. Banana is relatively cheap.  It costs around 1.5M per 225,000 cases.  2% Pb is a mere $27,000.00.   If I'm not mistaken the fuel costs for a ship to go from EU to South America is more, imagine the sabotage quotient.

a.   

the seller and buyer can sign everything and in the end if the client ownes the boat, can never show up with said vessel to port and whoalah, people are left with their hands in the air.  You remain discredited and have closed the door for future income potential in a hard to buy product/volume position.  What do you suggest to securitize the weekly flow / vessel arrival?  I guess the PB ought to atleast be equal to a more substancial amount as $200k, what do you think?   

Besides a revolving LC what are other concepts are typically integrated for weekly shipments in yearly contracts?  

b. I know of a guy that uses special software to monitor a companies exports in South America.  He said he uses this to ensure that nobody goes around him with signed & notarized contracts @ Embassy.  He integrates NCND clause into his contracts as an intermediary(????? how is an irrevocable direction implemented????).     If they do go around him, even with a company of a different name but the same principal he says he can prove this with evidence the subscription he pays for provides to be able to proceed with legal action.  The part I don't like is legal action to invoke recuperating the commission.  A comprehensive PB from both buyer and seller to intermediary I imagine is the only way besides making an initial threat to pay before having to deal with legal issues.

I have another friend here in Miami thats used the US marshall to entrap a companies vessel and merchandise until the satisfaction of a bad $80,000.00 debt was made, but that mechanism was easily facilitated to my imagination since it was the US.

Do you have any comments???    What cutting edge tricks can you share to avoid circumvention and access penalty thereof to slimey suppliers or clients in the global trade marketplace / for various territories as an intermediary?

ANSWER: Dear Mike

Thanks for your question..You've made effort to provide as such..lets see if I can Shed more light on the subject matter-I will use CAPITALS in sectional reply- see how you go-

Lets say for example a large banana deal of which the buyer is owner of banana vessel to pick up merchandise.

BUYER TAKING POSSESSION AND TITLE OF GOODS- HENCE HE HAS CHARTERED A SHIP(REGARDLESS CHARTERER OR OWNER" FOB" RULE AS PER INCOTERMS STILL APPLIES)

HENCE YOU ONLY CONCERN IS THE OBSERVANCE OF "FOB" INCOTERMS RULES OF DELIVERY

Large banan deals are in the form of yearly buying contracts and very difficult to protect IMO.

POSSIBLY..

Banana is a perishable product and requires lots of labor and harvesting can be affected by extreme to torrential weather conditions since plantation are out in the open.

OFTEN... BUT THATS NOT YOUR CONCERN..THE CONTRACT STYUIPULATES WAT YOU HAVE  ORDERED- GREEN BANANA'S  INDUVIDUALLY PACKED IN ETC..ETC.. HOLD NITORGEN GAS...ETC..CONTIANER MUST BE REFRIGERATED..ETC..ETC..

HENCE IF THATS WHAT THE CONTRACT STATES THEN YOU MUST GET THE GOODS DELIVERED ACCORDINGLY AND CERTIFICATES AS SUCH ARE ISSUED BY THIRD PARTIES TO PROVES THAT SUCH GOODS ARE INDEED INSIDE EACH CONTAINER- AS FAR AS EU REGULATION ARE CONCERNED ..THE BUYER HAS TO ENSURE HE HAS THE IMPORT PERMITS ...THATS HIS BUSINESS NOT YOURS..YOU BUSINESS STOP ONCE GOODS ARE 'DELIVERED" AS EXPLAINED FURTHER BELOW..

When it comes to a weekly volume of 225,000 cases per week for a year I would like to know what your comments are as to how best enforce respectability & tightening of the agreement:

OF THE SALES CONTRACT...? YOU SELLING AS SUCH  AS "SELLER" TO THE SAID "BUYER"

1. Banana is relatively cheap.  It costs around 1.5M per 225,000 cases.  2% Pb is a mere $27,000.00.   If I'm not mistaken the fuel costs for a ship to go from EU to South America is more, imagine the sabotage quotient.

BUT THATS MNOT YOU CONCERN- AT "FOB" DELIVERY IS INITATED AND COMPLETE ONCE FCA CT CONTAINER RULES ARE APPLIED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GOODS GOING ON BOARD PAST THE SHIPS RAILS IN PORT OF LOADING-DELIVERY IS JUST THAT "TITLE DELIVERY" ONLY

FOB IS FOR BULK SHIPMENTS NO CONTAINERS- THE TERM EQUIVELENT WHEN CONTAINERS ARE USED IS "FCA"

a.   

the seller and buyer can sign everything and in the end if the client ownes the boat, can never show up with said vessel to port and whoalah, NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN HERE- THE CLIENTS THE SAID "BUYER' ORDERS  SHIP TO BE PRESENT AT THE PORT OF LOADING AS AGREED UPON ON THE SALES CONTRACT WITH THE ISSUE OF A "DELIVERY" DATE

THE DELIVERY DATE STIPULATES THAT YOU THE SELLER WILL HAVE THE GOODS ALONG SIDE SHIP READY FOR LOADING ON SAID 'DELIVERY" DATE- SHIP FAILS TO ARRIVE- YOU HAVE STILL "DELIVERED" ON TIME AND IS ENTITLED TO MAKE COLLECTION ARRANGE MENT- REMEMBER - THE BOL IN AN FOB DEAL DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SECURED BY  YOU - HENCE THE BOL DOES NOT FORM PART OF COLLECTION PROCEDURES-

THE BUYER CANNOT BUY ANYTHING IF HE HAS NOT ADVISED  THE IRREVOCABLE INSTRUMENTS FOR PAYMENT OF THE GOODS LONG BEFORE THE SHIP ARRIVES AT PORT OF LOADING  AS PER CONTRACT STIPULATION-

FUTHER MORE THE DELIVERY DATE IS FORMED ON CONTRACT IN DEFINING WHEN BERTHING IS AVAILABLE AT SAID PORT OF LOADING - THIS IS DEFINED AS "LAY DAYS"-

THUS IF THE SHIP ARRIVES LATE - AND BREACHES "LAY DAYS " SUCH EXPENSES ARE AT THE BUYER COST- SO LONG AT YOU HAVE THE GOODS ALONG SIDE SHIP READY FOR LOADING

IF THE SHIP ARRIVES BUT THE GOODS HAVE NOT ARRIVED, AND FINALLY ARRIVE LATE IN WHERE THE SHIP NEEDS TO STAY AN EXTRA 2 DAYS  OVER LAY DAYS TIMES- THEN SUCH LAY DAYS EXPENSES ARE YOURS -

SO THE MONEY IS IN YOU BANK , AND SHIP DOES NTO ARRIVES- THE  SELLER PROCEEDS WITH "COLLECTION"- THE BUYER IF HE FAILS TO SHOW ALL TOGETHER LOSES HIS MONEY- BECAUSE YOU DID 'DELIVER' THE GOODS AT PER YOUR AGREEMENT AS PER FOB INCOTERMS RULES OF DELIVERY- THE TITLE TO THE GOODS FORMS THE  PRESENTATION DOCUMENTSS , AMONG OTHER THINGS- AS APPARENT ON THE CREDIT - ONCE YOU PRESENT 'CLEANLY" SUCH DOCUMETNS - YOU HAVE "DELIVERED' AND PAYMENT IS ALLOWED TO APPLY-

people are left with their hands in the air.  

NOT AT ALL-

You remain discredited and have closed the door for future income potential in a hard to buy product/volume position.  

NOT AT ALL YOU HAVE "DELIVERED" THE BUYER IS DISCREDITED-

HENCE I CAN SEE YOU LACK EXPERIENCE AND CORRECT TRADING ADVICES IN MATTERS OF SUCH PROCEDURES THAT AN NTERMEDIARY MUST APPLY..BUT YOU ARE NOT ALONE ..99 PERCENT OF SUCH DEALS ARE IN THE SAME BOAT...ANY OF MY TRAINED AGENTS COULD HAVE ANSWERED THESE QUESTIONS-THE MANY MILLIONS OF OTHER TRADER COULD NOT, BUT TEN AGAIN MOST WILL NEVER CLOSE A DEAL ANYWAY.

What do you suggest to securitize the weekly flow / vessel arrival?  I guess the PB ought to atleast be equal to a more substancial amount as $200k, what do you think?   

ANITER CONFUSED REMARK ABOVE - BUT THE PERFORMANCE GUARTANTEE IS ADVISED FROM YOUR SUPPLIER TO YOU  - TO PROTECT YOU FROM  LATE DELIVERY, HENCE IF THE SUPPLIER IS LATE TO DELIVER THE GOODS TO YOU , YOU WILL BE LATE DELIVERYING THE GOODS TO THE BUYER- THE PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE IS COLLECTED BY THE BUYER ACCORDINGLY -(ITS NOT PB AS SO MANY WORNGL STATE....BUT PG)

'DELIVERY' MEANS DEL;IVERY OF "DOCUMENTS" NO GOODS- INTERMEDIARIES  DEAL IN "TITLE DOCUMENTS" , END BUYERS DEAL IN COLLECTING TITLE DOCUMENTS AND "POSSESSION OF GOODS" - INTERMEDIRIES CANNOT GET "POSSESSION" OF GOODS- INTERMEDIRIES SELL "TITLE" TO THE GOODS ONLY- FAILURE TO PERFORM MEANS THAT THE BUYER IS COMPENSATESD FOR DELIVERY FAILURE CAUSED BUY THE SELLER- THE DEAL CAN STILL CLOSE , EXCEOPT  THE BUYER GETS THE PG VALUE  TO HELP MITIGATE COST CAUSED BY SUCH DELIVERY DELAY-

Besides a revolving LC what are other concepts are typically integrated for weekly shipments in yearly contracts? NON AS FAR AS UNSKILED INTERMEDIARIES ARE CONCERNED- UCP600 IRREVOCABLE NON CUMULATIVE REVOLVING  TRANSFERABLE DOCUMENTARTY LETTER OF CREDIT IS THE ONLY SAFE APPLICATION- b. I know of a guy that uses special software to monitor a companies exports in South America.  He said he uses this to ensure that nobody goes around him with signed & notarized contracts @ Embassy.  He integrates NCND clause into his contracts as an intermediary(????? how is an irrevocable direction implemented????).     If they do go around him, even with a company of a different name but the same principal he says he can prove this with evidence the subscription he pays for provides to be able to proceed with legal action. NONSENSE...YOU HAVE TO PROVE A LOSS OF EARNINGS- A CIRCUMVENTING GROUP CLOSES ITS DOORS ON EVERYONE ..AN INTERMEDIARY SIMPLY HAS NO WAY TO FIND OIUT IF THE DEAL DID CLOSE..AND EVEN ITF IT DID , IT HAS NO WAY TO PROVE HE WAS PART OF THE DEAL...AND EVEN IF HE COULD ...HE HAS TO SHOW WAHT WAS "LOST" ... A PAYORDER IS USELESS..BECAUSE IT CANNOT BE COLLECTED UPON.

I SELL BANANAS TO 20 DIFFERENT BUYER FROM THE SAME PORT-IF YOU WERE CIRCUMEWVENTED HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS YOU SPECIFIC  DEAL THATS WAS BY PASSED...? IF YOU ISSUE AN INJUNCTION TO STOP SUCH A DEAL ONLY TO FIND THAT IT WAS NOT YOUR DEAL..THE MASSIVE COST OF THE INJUNCTION AND THAT OF BEING SUED  FOR THE LOSS  CAUSE DBECAUSE OF SUCH DELAYS WILL SEND  YOU BROKE..ETC..ETC. I CAN GO ON ALL DAY OIN THIS THREAD...

The part I don't like is legal action to invoke recuperating the commission. NO A CHANCE..IT WOULD COST HALF A MILLON DOLLARS TO PROVE ALL SUCH MATTTERS EFECTIVELY TO WIN SUCH A COURT CASE..NONSENSE REALLY.INTERMEDIARIES DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF SPARE MONEY ..JUST LAYING AROUND. A comprehensive PB from both buyer and seller to intermediary I imagine is the only way besides making an initial threat to pay before having to deal with legal issues.

NO..THE PG HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEAL OTHER THAN FOR" LATE DELIVERY"A ISB98  SLC IS ISSUED FROM THE SUPPLIER TO YOU- AND TRANSFERD BY YOU TO THE SUPPLIER AFTER HE ADVISES YOU HIS DLC AND SUCH I IN ORDER AND ACCEPTED BY YOU-

YO HRN TRANSFER ONLY THE BUY PRICE TO YOUR SUPPLIER - THE DIFFERENCE IN YOU ACCOUNT IS YOUR COMMISSION- WHEN DELIVERY IS MADE AND ALL DOCUMENTS ARE PRESENTED CORRECTY TO THE BUYER ISSUING BANK ...THE SUPPLIER GETS HIS MONEY AS DO YOU-

BANKS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED IN MATTERS OF THE SALES CONTRACT..THEY DEAL IN FINANCE..THE ISSUING BANK OF THE END BUYER TAKES OVER FROM THE END BUYER IN "GUARANTEEING" PAYMNENTS SO LONG AS "DELEVERY" DOCUMENTS  ARE PRESENTED AS THE THE CONDITION OF THE DLC...EVEN IF GOODS HAVE NOT ARRIVED...THATS WHY A UCP600 FORMATTED DLC MUST BE IUSED BY INTERMEDIARIES-THATS WHY SUCH A DLC IS ISSUED AS "IRREVOCABLE" - THE END BUYER CAN SCREAM ALL HE LIKES TO HIS BANK TO STOP THE DLC FROM BEING PAID UPON..BUT IF YOU HAVE PRESENTED ALL THE DELIVERY DOCUMENTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CREDITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS ..THE BUYER BANK HAS TO ALLOW COLLECTION TO PROCEED ..AS PER "UCP600" RULES I have another friend here in Miami thats used the US marshall to entrap a companies vessel and merchandise until the satisfaction of a bad $80,000.00 debt was made, but that mechanism was easily facilitated to my imagination since it was the US.

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEAL IN HAND ...THAT RELATES TO A WHOLE OTHER BALL GAME..EXAMPLE ; A CARRIER WHO HAS NOT BEEN PAID FREIGHT IS ALLOWED A LEIN ON THE GOODS..THE GOODS ARE SEIZED AND SOLD TO RECOVER FREIGHT COSTS..NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU'VE STATED-

Do you have any comments???    What cutting edge tricks can you share to avoid circumvention and access penalty thereof to slimey suppliers or clients in the global trade marketplace / for various territories as an intermediary?

CERTAINLY HAVE ...ITS CALLED " DOCTRINE OF STRICT COMPLIANCE"..YOU LEARN CORRECT TRADING PROCEDURES AS IT APPLIES TO INTERMEDIARIES- YOU BECOME THE SOURCING INTERMEDIRY , THEN REVERT TO POSITION OF OF SPECIAL INTERMEDIARY DEFINED AS "BUYER/ESELLER" AND CONCULDE THE DEAL YOUR SELF  BETWEEN THE END BUYER AND THE SUPPLIER WITHOUT ONE SIDE FINDING OUT ANYTHING ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE - YOU AS THE BUYER/SELLER ALSO  COLLECT UPON AND PROTECT ALL INTERMEDIAIRES COMMISSIONS WHO HAVE HELPED YOUCLOSE THE DEAL.

YOU MUST  FORGET ALL ALBOUT NCND/ LOI/ICPO/POP/ASWP AND THE LIKES AND LEARN EFFECTIVE PROCEUDRES-

THERE IS NO OTHER EFFECTIVE WAY TO ENSURE SAFE COMMISSIONS. READ "URPIB" AND OTHE VALUABLE MATERIAL FOUND IN BOTH BELOW WEBSITES-

ABOVE IS YOU ANSWER, BUT AS STATED ABVE MAY BE CONFUSING BECAUSE WITHOUT LEARNING PROCEDURES ABOVE WILL ONLY MAKE SENSE IN PART-

THERE IS SO MUCH TO LEARN...AND KNOW BECFORE ONE SHOULD EVEN ATTEMPT TO CLOSE A IMPORT EXPORT DEAL AS A PRIVATE INTERMEDIARY-

KIND REGARDS

DAVIDE PAPA

WWW.FTNX.9F.COM

WWW.FTNEXPORTING.COM

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

You put responses after statements that weren't even questions.

1. I would doubt that a banana contract would be deemed acceptable where strict conditions, delivery/lay's for lateness apply since soo many variables do affect deliverance of agriculture.  

2. There is this service called piers for cargo intelligence that lloyds sells that I know of.  

The software / subscription the exporters that monitor movement in South America are Urea & Sugar brokers that can see all movement in Colombia via a Colombian companies NIT.  They can also detect sister companies that some people use them to transact once they know who's the original supplier.  

Even the names of principals involved in both sides of the transaction are shown.  

Thank you for answering.  Though you didn't answer me directly your comments pretty much allowed me to understand construction of draft verbiage concept / mechanism that would be essential to make this deal go through to cover and allow fluctuations in verified availability.  
Bairrfhionn
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:16 am


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