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4 Week Old Won't Eat

Discussions relating to Personal Injury Law

4 Week Old Won't Eat

Postby Kohana » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:12 pm

My 4-week old male Lamancha mix just refused his bottle.  I was so shocked because he loves feeding time and is usually very energetic.  This morning he ate fine, but this afternoon he won't eat, he just stands around.  He got knocked down by his sister and he just laid there apathetic at first and then slowly got up.  His temp is 104.7.  He seems to be chewing his cud.  He pooped a few minutes ago and it looked normal(black oval droppings).  I touched his flank area and it tremored---this may be a normal reaction, I have no idea.  He has very little energy today.  A few new things have happened:  about 1 week ago, he ran into the porch swing and his mouth started bleeding.  He had no external injury and seemed fine after a few minutes, although it has taken him about a minute longer than his sister to finish his bottle since then.  Also, last night was the first night that they were not locked up but could enter and leave the stable freely.  And my mother-in-law fed them their last bottle last night as we were going to be away.  When I returned, their bottles were soaking in water.  I always let them dry in the window.  I wish now I would have rinsed them in chlorine before using them again.  This may not have anything to do with it.  Also, I have been allowing the goats to frolic in the backyard, but we recently finished their fence, so they are in a new area that probably has different plants.  They are eating plants--my geraniums are gone!  How can I help this baby?  I appreciate your help so much.  Thank you.

ANSWER: HI Nonna,

I doubt the water soaked bottles have anything to do with this. ;)(One less thing to worry about here)

Poop sounds good, cudding sounds good.

Not sure what all you have growing in there, but you may want to go to my website  I have a few links to places that discuss poisonous plants.

the 104.7 fever is what concerns me.. This very well could be pneumonia and this would also make him lose his appetite.  I would start him on Tylan200 injections twice a day for 5 days for upper respiratory. Tylan200 is the best over the counter antibiotic for upper respiratory- it stings like crazy so expect him to holler, but it works very well. The dosage is 1cc/25lbs- for a 40 lb goat I would go to the 2cc dosage. You should see some improvement in 24 hours but continue to give it for the full 5 days- if a big improvement  is seen, you can cut the dose to once a day for the last 3 days. His mouth may hurt form the accident- he may have a broken or loose tooth in the back or cut gum making him finish his bottles slower. IF you notice hi having sloppy poops- let me know - He "could" have an internal injury but my guess is he was weak to begin with(from pneumonia)  which is why sister was able to knock him down. The fever, loss of appetite and lethargy says pneumonia to me. IF you do not have Tylan200  use what ever antibiotic you have on hand - first choice after tyaln200 would be oxytet again 1cc/25lbs.. Penicillin does not work as well with pneumonia. goatlady

Goat-Link.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Hello again.  Not long after I emailed you my question, I ran into town to our tractor supply store to get a bottle of cd antitoxin before they closed, just in case you said my goat might have enterotoxemia.  When I got back from the store, I checked to see if you had replied and you had, so off I went to get my baby goat to give him antibiotics.  I found him dead already.  I was so shocked that he had died so quickly.  He went from perfectly normal and healthy to dead in just a matter of a few hours.  I suspect it wasn't pneumonia, but I don't know what it was.  Now I am worried about my other baby.  She seems absolutely fine, but I don't want her to get sick too.  I need to know if I need to get another baby goat for a companion for her.  These two were my first goats and I have no other livestock to keep her company, except some chickens which seem to get along just fine  with her.  Can she survive alone?  I've read that goats need other goats to thrive.  Also, while I took my other goat's  temp yesterday, I looked inside his mouth in case he had gotten infection from his little accident.  I saw nothing but noticed that the inside of his mouth was very pale, nearly white.  He was a pure white goat so I didn't really suspect anything until later when my husband asked me if his mouth was white or dry and that this was a sign of poisoning.  Could he have eaten something that killed him that quickly?  I am reading your list of poisonous plants and the only one I recognize is johnsongrass, which he could have ingested at anytime.  Bermuda grass may also be out there.  They do not have access to a huge pasture, but an area about the size of a typical backyard.  I don't want to endanger my little girl goat, nor do I wish to endanger a new baby goat while I don't know what killed my goat.

ANSWER: HI Nonna,

I am SO very sorry.. poisoning usually  has frothing mouth and  neurological symptoms and he would have not been chewing cud. Enterotoxemia  will also cause cud chewing to stop and it takes a few days for digestive upset to  create the toxin in the gut for it to be enterotoxemia. You need to find her a baby goat to be buddies with  this week-  she will mourn the loss of her brother and  possibly send her into serious ill health. The breed doesn't matter to her- as long as it is someone she can play with and be with, preferably another kid-  

What are you feeding them in the bottles? Not milk replacer I hope.. read my feeding bottle baby article:http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94&Itemid=76

How hard did sister hit him when she knocked him down?  How much of the geranium did they eat- I mean how big was the plant? And his poop was normal? The inside of his mouth was pale- Is she the same color as he was? what does her mouth look like inside? 4 weeks old is terribly young to have had worms  enough to cause anemia, BUT depending on how hard he was hit by sister  and where- She could have  ruptured his spleen liver or other organ in the hit-  he should not have fallen like that and not gotten up right away- I assume the 2 were  approx the same size,  he should have been able to take a good hard butt from her, Unless there was some sort of congenital issue. Te inside of the mouth  doesn't tell  much except when they are in heart failure- it is white. How is her poop and color?

His situation very well could have been a combination of things: Him not getting up after sister knocked him is one major signal something was wrong then- maybe even before she knocked him.. His running into the swing could have also played a role- not the running into it but Why he ran into it.  The more I think about this all in my head, the more I think something was wrong with him from the beginning. This is a note I wrote to a gal on my yahoo group just this morning about this very subject  discussing 2 of my own babies I lost last month:

---------------------------------------------

"Is the pneumonia we are seeing this year a new type or a mutation of some kind? Pretty darned scary; we all rely on fever temps as an indicator of infection and pneumonia.

Judy

Judy,

I don't know if this is something new or if the fever is spiking and dropping and we are not catching it(which is what I assume)  I lost a set of 3 week old twins this last month in the same day after a series of hot  humid days and cool nights situation- I happened to catch his temp when it was "slightly"  up(104.5) then it drastically dropped to 97 within an hour - hers was 100 by the time I noticed her not acting right- Bouncing around in the early am(5am) and sick by 3pm, dead by midnight, In spite of my  attempts to turn them around.

There was little noticeable congestion- lethargy, no appetite, scouring, weakness- hits fast and  hard. I'm thinking interstitial pneumonia. Naturally these were my absolute favorite babies this year.. I was devastated. Necropsy showed pneumonia in both kids. On another site where I answer goat questions for people in trouble, I have seen  this  multiple times per week - sometimes  multiple times per day-nationwide. This year's weather is strange and not helping matters I am sure. goatlady"

--------------------------------------------- Nonna, I am So very sorry,  Glad you have the CD anti toxin on hand.. it IS the ANTI toxin right? And you have the Tylan200?

Read my baby goat articles and if she is on milk replacer get her off of it and put her on milk- watch her like a hawk- the second something seems amiss,  let me know - the split second she seems not  as hungry  or hangs her head or tucks her tail, take her temp- and start her on CD anti toxin. If her body needs it - it will help her greatly- if  her body does not need it and she gets it- it will do no harm. I would be taking her rectal temp  every few hours today and tomorrow to see what it is doing, and get her a goat buddy  asap.. hugs

goatlady

Goat-Link.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Thank you.  About the goat that died.  Something was wrong before his sister knocked him down.  She only knocked him down trying to get to the bottle he had refused to finish(he ate 4 oz of it).  He just fell over because he had no energy to prevent it.  Normally, her fiestiness would not have knocked him down.  I feed them whole cow's milk like you said.  The geraniums were not that big--but these are not the only flowers and leaves they have eaten.  I've seen them nibble on tree branches, water garden plants and other plants from my flower beds.  But the geraniums are the only plants they have devoured in their entirety(except for leaving the empty green stubs).  About the little girl, I looked her over closely.  Her nose is slightly running and her temp is 102.4.  She wags her tail, nuzzles me, and seems normal, except that she is staying close to the stable and just comes out when she hears me coming.  I hope she is not already too lonely.  I'm looking for another baby goat.  One person told me a goat younger than 3 months old taken from its mother will usually always die, no matter what.  I hope this is not true--I do not want to lose another baby.  I think I will go ahead and give the little girl a dose of antibiotic.  Can I give her the antitoxin as well, or should these meds not be mixed?
Kohana
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:22 am

4 Week Old Won't Eat

Postby Forrester » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:02 pm

HI Nonna,

I agree- something was already wrong with him, he should not have gotten  so disoriented when she knocked him and he should not have fallen like that. I'm thinking he may have had some sort of birth defect internally- and with the white mouth,  this sounds much like congestive heart failure. The geraniums are not to worry about, her temp is fine..(101.5 to 103.5 is normal)  A 3 month old who is being bottle fed is fine- a 3 month old or younger taken off momma is not good- too young to wean and causes too many  health problems. See if maybe you can find a bottle baby. OR.. a mom with a single baby no matter the baby's age who will be young enough to be a buddy to your girl- do not expect the new mom to accept your girl yet and she won't feed her but the kids will prob play.

The CD Anti toxin can be given along with antibiotics.  I hope you find a baby soon, she is lonely and siblings miss each other more than they miss moms.  Keep me posted! hugs

goatlady

Goat-Link.com
Forrester
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:07 am

4 Week Old Won't Eat

Postby Ceallachan » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:28 am

My 4-week old male Lamancha mix just refused his bottle.  I was so shocked because he loves feeding time and is usually very energetic.  This morning he ate fine, but this afternoon he won't eat, he just stands around.  He got knocked down by his sister and he just laid there apathetic at first and then slowly got up.  His temp is 104.7.  He seems to be chewing his cud.  He pooped a few minutes ago and it looked normal(black oval droppings).  I touched his flank area and it tremored---this may be a normal reaction, I have no idea.  He has very little energy today.  A few new things have happened:  about 1 week ago, he ran into the porch swing and his mouth started bleeding.  He had no external injury and seemed fine after a few minutes, although it has taken him about a minute longer than his sister to finish his bottle since then.  Also, last night was the first night that they were not locked up but could enter and leave the stable freely.  And my mother-in-law fed them their last bottle last night as we were going to be away.  When I returned, their bottles were soaking in water.  I always let them dry in the window.  I wish now I would have rinsed them in chlorine before using them again.  This may not have anything to do with it.  Also, I have been allowing the goats to frolic in the backyard, but we recently finished their fence, so they are in a new area that probably has different plants.  They are eating plants--my geraniums are gone!  How can I help this baby?  I appreciate your help so much.  Thank you.

ANSWER: HI Nonna,

I doubt the water soaked bottles have anything to do with this. ;)(One less thing to worry about here)

Poop sounds good, cudding sounds good.

Not sure what all you have growing in there, but you may want to go to my website  I have a few links to places that discuss poisonous plants.

the 104.7 fever is what concerns me.. This very well could be pneumonia and this would also make him lose his appetite.  I would start him on Tylan200 injections twice a day for 5 days for upper respiratory. Tylan200 is the best over the counter antibiotic for upper respiratory- it stings like crazy so expect him to holler, but it works very well. The dosage is 1cc/25lbs- for a 40 lb goat I would go to the 2cc dosage. You should see some improvement in 24 hours but continue to give it for the full 5 days- if a big improvement  is seen, you can cut the dose to once a day for the last 3 days. His mouth may hurt form the accident- he may have a broken or loose tooth in the back or cut gum making him finish his bottles slower. IF you notice hi having sloppy poops- let me know - He "could" have an internal injury but my guess is he was weak to begin with(from pneumonia)  which is why sister was able to knock him down. The fever, loss of appetite and lethargy says pneumonia to me. IF you do not have Tylan200  use what ever antibiotic you have on hand - first choice after tyaln200 would be oxytet again 1cc/25lbs.. Penicillin does not work as well with pneumonia. goatlady

Goat-Link.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Hello again.  Not long after I emailed you my question, I ran into town to our tractor supply store to get a bottle of cd antitoxin before they closed, just in case you said my goat might have enterotoxemia.  When I got back from the store, I checked to see if you had replied and you had, so off I went to get my baby goat to give him antibiotics.  I found him dead already.  I was so shocked that he had died so quickly.  He went from perfectly normal and healthy to dead in just a matter of a few hours.  I suspect it wasn't pneumonia, but I don't know what it was.  Now I am worried about my other baby.  She seems absolutely fine, but I don't want her to get sick too.  I need to know if I need to get another baby goat for a companion for her.  These two were my first goats and I have no other livestock to keep her company, except some chickens which seem to get along just fine  with her.  Can she survive alone?  I've read that goats need other goats to thrive.  Also, while I took my other goat's  temp yesterday, I looked inside his mouth in case he had gotten infection from his little accident.  I saw nothing but noticed that the inside of his mouth was very pale, nearly white.  He was a pure white goat so I didn't really suspect anything until later when my husband asked me if his mouth was white or dry and that this was a sign of poisoning.  Could he have eaten something that killed him that quickly?  I am reading your list of poisonous plants and the only one I recognize is johnsongrass, which he could have ingested at anytime.  Bermuda grass may also be out there.  They do not have access to a huge pasture, but an area about the size of a typical backyard.  I don't want to endanger my little girl goat, nor do I wish to endanger a new baby goat while I don't know what killed my goat.

ANSWER: HI Nonna,

I am SO very sorry.. poisoning usually  has frothing mouth and  neurological symptoms and he would have not been chewing cud. Enterotoxemia  will also cause cud chewing to stop and it takes a few days for digestive upset to  create the toxin in the gut for it to be enterotoxemia. You need to find her a baby goat to be buddies with  this week-  she will mourn the loss of her brother and  possibly send her into serious ill health. The breed doesn't matter to her- as long as it is someone she can play with and be with, preferably another kid-  

What are you feeding them in the bottles? Not milk replacer I hope.. read my feeding bottle baby article:http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94&Itemid=76

How hard did sister hit him when she knocked him down?  How much of the geranium did they eat- I mean how big was the plant? And his poop was normal? The inside of his mouth was pale- Is she the same color as he was? what does her mouth look like inside? 4 weeks old is terribly young to have had worms  enough to cause anemia, BUT depending on how hard he was hit by sister  and where- She could have  ruptured his spleen liver or other organ in the hit-  he should not have fallen like that and not gotten up right away- I assume the 2 were  approx the same size,  he should have been able to take a good hard butt from her, Unless there was some sort of congenital issue. Te inside of the mouth  doesn't tell  much except when they are in heart failure- it is white. How is her poop and color?

His situation very well could have been a combination of things: Him not getting up after sister knocked him is one major signal something was wrong then- maybe even before she knocked him.. His running into the swing could have also played a role- not the running into it but Why he ran into it.  The more I think about this all in my head, the more I think something was wrong with him from the beginning. This is a note I wrote to a gal on my yahoo group just this morning about this very subject  discussing 2 of my own babies I lost last month:

---------------------------------------------

"Is the pneumonia we are seeing this year a new type or a mutation of some kind? Pretty darned scary; we all rely on fever temps as an indicator of infection and pneumonia.

Judy

Judy,

I don't know if this is something new or if the fever is spiking and dropping and we are not catching it(which is what I assume)  I lost a set of 3 week old twins this last month in the same day after a series of hot  humid days and cool nights situation- I happened to catch his temp when it was "slightly"  up(104.5) then it drastically dropped to 97 within an hour - hers was 100 by the time I noticed her not acting right- Bouncing around in the early am(5am) and sick by 3pm, dead by midnight, In spite of my  attempts to turn them around.

There was little noticeable congestion- lethargy, no appetite, scouring, weakness- hits fast and  hard. I'm thinking interstitial pneumonia. Naturally these were my absolute favorite babies this year.. I was devastated. Necropsy showed pneumonia in both kids. On another site where I answer goat questions for people in trouble, I have seen  this  multiple times per week - sometimes  multiple times per day-nationwide. This year's weather is strange and not helping matters I am sure. goatlady"

--------------------------------------------- Nonna, I am So very sorry,  Glad you have the CD anti toxin on hand.. it IS the ANTI toxin right? And you have the Tylan200?

Read my baby goat articles and if she is on milk replacer get her off of it and put her on milk- watch her like a hawk- the second something seems amiss,  let me know - the split second she seems not  as hungry  or hangs her head or tucks her tail, take her temp- and start her on CD anti toxin. If her body needs it - it will help her greatly- if  her body does not need it and she gets it- it will do no harm. I would be taking her rectal temp  every few hours today and tomorrow to see what it is doing, and get her a goat buddy  asap.. hugs

goatlady

Goat-Link.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Thank you.  About the goat that died.  Something was wrong before his sister knocked him down.  She only knocked him down trying to get to the bottle he had refused to finish(he ate 4 oz of it).  He just fell over because he had no energy to prevent it.  Normally, her fiestiness would not have knocked him down.  I feed them whole cow's milk like you said.  The geraniums were not that big--but these are not the only flowers and leaves they have eaten.  I've seen them nibble on tree branches, water garden plants and other plants from my flower beds.  But the geraniums are the only plants they have devoured in their entirety(except for leaving the empty green stubs).  About the little girl, I looked her over closely.  Her nose is slightly running and her temp is 102.4.  She wags her tail, nuzzles me, and seems normal, except that she is staying close to the stable and just comes out when she hears me coming.  I hope she is not already too lonely.  I'm looking for another baby goat.  One person told me a goat younger than 3 months old taken from its mother will usually always die, no matter what.  I hope this is not true--I do not want to lose another baby.  I think I will go ahead and give the little girl a dose of antibiotic.  Can I give her the antitoxin as well, or should these meds not be mixed?
Ceallachan
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:05 pm


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